Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

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bluenine

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by bluenine on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:21 pm

Revenues have less to do with success and more to do with fan following.... Juventus is the most popular club in Italy, and in Europe - so its no surprise that they make so much money.

Financially speaking, the "galacticos" program at Real was one of the most successful strategies ever in football. In a footballing sense, it was a disaster.

Tweedle wrote:
"Tuffy" Monag wrote:
Tweedle wrote:Oh, and so much for the EPL being filthy rich and destroying football through buying all the quality!

There are as many Serie A teams and they're better positioned as well!

I believe there are in fact 8 EPL teams in the top twenty.

These statistics are dubious anyway.

As I said, a team that plays in Serie B and attracts minimal crowds and who had their prize winning taken away from winning the legue title ast season cannot be third based on a quarter final in the Champs league and flogging off Notts County shirts
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Tweesus

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Tweesus on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:26 pm

bluenine wrote:Revenues have less to do with success and more to do with fan following.... Juventus is the most popular club in Italy, and in Europe - so its no surprise that they make so much money.

Financially speaking, the "galacticos" program at Real was one of the most successful strategies ever in football. In a footballing sense, it was a disaster.

Tweedle wrote:
"Tuffy" Monag wrote:
Tweedle wrote:Oh, and so much for the EPL being filthy rich and destroying football through buying all the quality!

There are as many Serie A teams and they're better positioned as well!

I believe there are in fact 8 EPL teams in the top twenty.

These statistics are dubious anyway.

As I said, a team that plays in Serie B and attracts minimal crowds and who had their prize winning taken away from winning the legue title ast season cannot be third based on a quarter final in the Champs league and flogging off Notts County shirts

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek blue Wink

It was the 05/06 season anyhow, I doubt they'll make the top ten for the 06/07 season list when that comes out
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Deano

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Deano on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:27 pm

19th cheers

Saintsar
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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Saintsar on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:32 pm

It is widely known that in the Premiership the TV money is divided up equally, but the prize money is based on final league position. In the Spanish league, Real Madrid and Barca negotiate their own TV broadcasting contracts, so, just as Man U's stadium is the highest-grossing in Europe (despite Arsenal tickets costing about 40% more), Real and Barca will have the most lucrative TV money deal in Europe.

And didn't Man U go out of the CL early last year? That's an extra 5 million Euros or more that they'll earn this year.
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bluenine

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by bluenine on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:33 pm

Not true! Delloitte is a very respected consulting firm, and they have been publishing this report for over 12 years now - using the same calculation basis. I remmeber using their research in 1998 when I had written a paper on the same topic.

While Delloitte does not include some data like transfers (only coz much of this data is confidential information), it does give a very accurate indication of the financial health of the top clubs in europe. They have predicted many of these financial crisis quite accurately. However, while revenues should not be confused with bottomline, they are still the most important statistic when looking at a football club's future is concerned - coz Football club industry is in a growth phase in over 80% of the markets. Not using transfer data actually makes these figures more relevant for this purpose!

Protheus wrote:From time to time some study of the richer club in the world come by.

To be honest i never see one unbiased. They look like being contracted by someone who wants to display some economic aspect of the clubs.

They never use REAL accounting classifications like any major company.
They NEVER use all clubs, only the ones they want to give the spotlight.

So this one is just "one more" of the endless biased "economic studies".
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:53 pm

Spurs have less money than Newcastle. No suprise There.
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Protheus

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Protheus on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:04 pm

bluenine wrote:Not true! Delloitte is a very respected consulting firm, and they have been publishing this report for over 12 years now - using the same calculation basis. I remmeber using their research in 1998 when I had written a paper on the same topic.

While Delloitte does not include some data like transfers (only coz much of this data is confidential information), it does give a very accurate indication of the financial health of the top clubs in europe. They have predicted many of these financial crisis quite accurately. However, while revenues should not be confused with bottomline, they are still the most important statistic when looking at a football club's future is concerned - coz Football club industry is in a growth phase in over 80% of the markets. Not using transfer data actually makes these figures more relevant for this purpose!

Protheus wrote:From time to time some study of the richer club in the world come by.

To be honest i never see one unbiased. They look like being contracted by someone who wants to display some economic aspect of the clubs.

They never use REAL accounting classifications like any major company.
They NEVER use all clubs, only the ones they want to give the spotlight.

So this one is just "one more" of the endless biased "economic studies".

Never said they were not a respected consulting firm. yes they have been publishing the reports for some years now but that doesn´t change the fact that they do not represent a concise evaluation of all the club accounting.
And yes they do not add all the data because of confidential information(thus not accurate already) and they only research certain clubs that they use as reference as they are well known and obviously rich but that doesn´t make it accurate.
Take Al-Itad for instance(sp?) they buy Figo thus their budget goes sky-high, i know it all depens how the numbers are registrated but that affects the accounting and they are very high numbers. Like Bekham or even the Galatico effect in Madrid (big spending countig on receiving big revenue from merchandising and sales-and this can be accounted in many ways too)
Thing is different clubs in different countries use different criteria. Some use debt in their favor, others register everything right away, others in the end of the fiscal year, others spread over a period of time....
Thing is you can´t accurate compare what is different to start with.
Now i agree it is peraphs the closest thing to a club rank in terms of CERTAIN aspects of the financial power, but it is not by all means an exact table.
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Barrilete

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Barrilete on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:06 pm

the thing with Real is that someday they will ran out of grounds or neighbouring towers to sell and they'll have to restrain from spending the numbers they spend now
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bluenine

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by bluenine on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:41 pm

Thats exactly why Delloite is focusing on "revenue generated from the market", and not balance sheet strength or profitability. IMO, this is the most accurate comparison statistic for precisely the reasons you have highlighted.


Protheus wrote:
bluenine wrote:Not true! Delloitte is a very respected consulting firm, and they have been publishing this report for over 12 years now - using the same calculation basis. I remmeber using their research in 1998 when I had written a paper on the same topic.

While Delloitte does not include some data like transfers (only coz much of this data is confidential information), it does give a very accurate indication of the financial health of the top clubs in europe. They have predicted many of these financial crisis quite accurately. However, while revenues should not be confused with bottomline, they are still the most important statistic when looking at a football club's future is concerned - coz Football club industry is in a growth phase in over 80% of the markets. Not using transfer data actually makes these figures more relevant for this purpose!

Protheus wrote:From time to time some study of the richer club in the world come by.

To be honest i never see one unbiased. They look like being contracted by someone who wants to display some economic aspect of the clubs.

They never use REAL accounting classifications like any major company.
They NEVER use all clubs, only the ones they want to give the spotlight.

So this one is just "one more" of the endless biased "economic studies".

Never said they were not a respected consulting firm. yes they have been publishing the reports for some years now but that doesn´t change the fact that they do not represent a concise evaluation of all the club accounting.
And yes they do not add all the data because of confidential information(thus not accurate already) and they only research certain clubs that they use as reference as they are well known and obviously rich but that doesn´t make it accurate.
Take Al-Itad for instance(sp?) they buy Figo thus their budget goes sky-high, i know it all depens how the numbers are registrated but that affects the accounting and they are very high numbers. Like Bekham or even the Galatico effect in Madrid (big spending countig on receiving big revenue from merchandising and sales-and this can be accounted in many ways too)
Thing is different clubs in different countries use different criteria. Some use debt in their favor, others register everything right away, others in the end of the fiscal year, others spread over a period of time....
Thing is you can´t accurate compare what is different to start with.
Now i agree it is peraphs the closest thing to a club rank in terms of CERTAIN aspects of the financial power, but it is not by all means an exact table.
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Protheus

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Protheus on Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:30 pm

When the study says:

"revenue figures are extracted from each club’s annual financial statements"

and

"We have not performed any verification work or audited any of the information contained in the clubs’ financial statements"

What credibility can you give to such study? Laughing

BTW here you have it all:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid%253D2834%2526cid%253D145152,00.html
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COTR

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by COTR on Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:17 pm

Protheus wrote:When the study says:

"revenue figures are extracted from each club’s annual financial statements"

and

"We have not performed any verification work or audited any of the information contained in the clubs’ financial statements"

What credibility can you give to such study? Laughing

BTW here you have it all:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid%253D2834%2526cid%253D145152,00.html
but most of these clubs will be audited by another firm so surely the info is reliable. it's illegal for plc's to not have an audit and many of these clubs are plc's


all this is really saying is which club recieves the most money in. very few clubs have a positive net transfer revenue. it's a major thing to leave out but it is more concerned with the profitability of the club as people have pointed out.

it's useful in so far as it shows which clubs have the most money available to run their clubs. if man u are the most profitable then clearly they are being run very very well.
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bluenine

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by bluenine on Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:40 pm

You are quite the pessimist, aren't ya! Wink

The financial statements of these clubs are well audited, and I doubt they will fudge data and risk serious penalties.... in italy, clubs seem to get punished harder for financial irregularities than match-fixing!


Protheus wrote:When the study says:

"revenue figures are extracted from each club’s annual financial statements"

and

"We have not performed any verification work or audited any of the information contained in the clubs’ financial statements"

What credibility can you give to such study? Laughing

BTW here you have it all:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid%253D2834%2526cid%253D145152,00.html
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Dejan Savićević

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Dejan Savićević on Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:15 pm

5th not bad...
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Kimbo

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kimbo on Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:54 pm

TeamSpirit™ wrote:Spurs have less money than Newcastle. No suprise There.
And done without a billionaire backing us. <Ale> Wink

To be fair you've caught up over the last couple of seasons, we're on a low and you're on a high. The worrying thing for us is that in 2003/04 we were one place behind Liverpool with a couple of million separating us, now it's 3 places and £35.7m. They've kicked on and we've dwindled. Sad

Nevermind, peaks and troughs and all that. Ale
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COTR

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by COTR on Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:04 pm

chelsea have the most revenue/available cash anyway.

they have attracted a bottomless abramovich pocket to the club and this beats every other club by a mile
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Protheus

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Protheus on Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:00 pm

COTR
but most of these clubs will be Wink audited by another firm so surely the info is reliable. it's illegal for plc's to not have an audit and many of these clubs are plc's (most of them yes, not all)

all this is really saying is which club recieves the most money in. very few clubs have a positive net transfer revenue. it's a major thing to leave out but it is more concerned with the profitability of the club as people have pointed out.

It is a way of getting an idea i agree with that

it's useful in so far as it shows which clubs have the most money available to run their clubs. if man u are the most profitable then clearly they are being run very very well.

It depends on what items of the accounting you use. I can give you a super profit and not telling you there is a even bigger debt behind it. Does that makes a club rich?(i am talking generically)

I agree that it gives an idea what i don´t agree is saying that the data of the tables in this study represent the absolut finacial power as the news present it. I can agree many will be audited but as in accounting many things can be presented in different ways.
Some data may be tagged as profit and such when in reality it is not and vice versa it depends on the metodology.


Bluenine

You are quite the pessimist, aren't ya!

Nope. I just do not belive in this numbers as an absolute truth and in the way they present it Razz

The financial statements of these clubs are well audited, and I doubt they will fudge data and risk serious penalties.... in italy, clubs seem to get punished harder for financial irregularities than match-fixing!

Yes it is a high risk game but people keep doing it, they will find a way. Not just the italian. Tax envasion problem exists in everywhere else in society why wouldn´t exist in football too.


But i do agree with you both it gives an idea, but i think it is just that nothing more. It is like the RSSSF or the UEFA ranking. Gives an idea but when you check some clubs in the ranking you wonder how true and reliable the ranking is Rolling Eyes

L r d
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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by L r d on Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:12 pm

From Man Utd's point of view. This is the season after our worst cl campaign in 10 years, poor f.a cup and not winning the league. Next season will include the extra mill every home game from the extra 8 thousand or however many seats. a much better cl at least qf. better f.a cup. Maybe winning the league also. Juventus should slip right down. Barca may overtake Madrid as now becks is gone they will lose a fair bit.
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Dejan Savićević

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Dejan Savićević on Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:58 pm

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:19th cheers

Matches your league position. cheers

Forza It
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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Forza It on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:00 pm

***Forza Milan*** wrote:
Deaño-WHUFC wrote:19th cheers

Matches your league position. cheers

LOL!

It's on.
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TM

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by TM on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:07 pm

***Forza Milan*** wrote:
Deaño-WHUFC wrote:19th cheers

Matches your league position. cheers

lol! lol!
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:14 pm

***Forza Milan*** wrote:
Deaño-WHUFC wrote:19th cheers

Matches your league position. cheers

Ahh - that was brutal! Laugh

L r d
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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by L r d on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:18 pm

***Forza Milan*** wrote:
Deaño-WHUFC wrote:19th cheers

Matches your league position. cheers

lol!
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Deano

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Deano on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:49 pm

shame our league position is 18th lol!

Taxi for ***Forza Milan***
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NCFC

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by NCFC on Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:11 pm

Just the big two for La Liga, would have though Valencia/Atletico might have made it.
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fcb

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by fcb on Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:55 pm

Read through the full 4 pages they had in there about Barcelona, makes for some good reading (if you're a Barca fan)!. This season our forecasted revenue is 300 million euros, so assuming all things stay the same (and Real's revenue is actually going to go down IMO after the sale of Ronaldo and Beckham), we will probably be no. 1 next year cheers
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Luso

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Luso on Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:28 pm

All these clubs will be audited? Says who?

This seems a very scetchy list to me based solely on the Portuguese club mentioned.

Porto's had the most money in Portugal lately, they have the largest budget, and yet Benfica appear ahead of them.

Revenues are on thing, but your wealth is never simply down to what you earn, it's what you spend as well.

This list doesn't talk about how much money each club actually has at its disposal...so to call it the richest club list...

Parks lives

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Parks lives on Thu May 01, 2008 11:25 am

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Tweesus

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Tweesus on Thu May 01, 2008 11:28 am

Third! cheers
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Kimbo

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kimbo on Thu May 01, 2008 12:45 pm

Bit out of date already tbh. The list says our debt% is 43, yet we don't have a debt anymore. Unlucky forbes you C0ck. <Ale>
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Cesc Soler

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Cesc Soler on Thu May 01, 2008 12:51 pm

Thierry Henry earned £12.5m in salary and sponsorship deals this season.
He earned £10m in is last season at Arsenal, £5m in salary and £5m through an immediate signing on fee. Henry contributed very little in that period.

The rumours linking Henry back to Arsenal make me laugh, Wenger would never do it from a football point of view or from a fiscal perspective.

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

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