Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

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The Bulk

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by The Bulk on Thu May 01, 2008 1:43 pm

Here's the latest American list

Rank Team Country Current Value Debt/Value(%) Change(%) Revenue Operating Income

1 Manchester (Red) England 1,800 60 24 394 111
2 Madrid Spain 1,285 27 24 474 112
3 Arsenal England 1,200 43 31 329 77
4 Liverpool England 1,050 65 131 269 60
5 Munich Germany 917 0 9 302 72
6 Milan Italy 798 0 -3 307 54
7 Barcelona Spain 784 7 47 392 92
8 Chelsea England 764 0 42 382 -5
9 Juventus Italy 510 5 -10 196 35
10 Schalke Germany 470 48 0 154 36
11 Rome Italy 434 12 94 213 48
12 Tottenham England 414 15 70 207 64
13 Lion France 408 7 19 190 15
14 Inter Italy 403 0 -27 207 21
15 Borussia Germany 323 57 63 122 31
16 Newcastle England 300 43 16 175 12
17 Hamburger Germany 293 0 32 163 41
18 Werder Germany 262 0 NA 131 11
19 Valencia Spain 254 159 31 145 -49
20 Glasgow (Green)Scotland 227 11 23 151 48
21 Everton England 197 30 24 103 -1
22 West Ham Hammers England 195 23 25 115 -22
23 Manchester (Blue) England 191 63 -8 114 27
24 Aston Villa England 190 12 36 106 -40
25 Olympique France 187 0 19 134 13

The thing that's scary, if you're a Valencia fan, is that their percentage debt is greater than the value of their club!

Indeed, their debt is 159% of the total value of their club! affraid

That's not sustainable. Are they about to go bankrupt? If they get relegated they'll surely go under.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Jaime on Thu May 01, 2008 1:44 pm

Probably because of the new stadium they are building.
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The Bulk

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by The Bulk on Thu May 01, 2008 1:48 pm

If that list is correct, Bayern are in the healthiest financial position.

They are worth $917 billion and their percentage debt is 0% of the value of their club.

That's healthy! Ale

Edit - How do they have a greater revenue stream than Liverpool? I realise Bayern have a much larger stadium than Liverpool but I thought German ticket prices were less than English ticket prices, and the TV revenue is greater in the EPL than in any other league in the world, so how do they generate that much money?


Last edited by The Quiet Earth on Thu May 01, 2008 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kimbo

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kimbo on Thu May 01, 2008 1:50 pm

This is based on the 06/07 season, so does that mean the new TV deal isn't taken into account yet?

Oleguerisntthatbad

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 pm

The Quiet Earth wrote:Here's the latest American list

Rank Team Country Current Value Debt/Value(%) Change(%) Revenue Operating Income

1 Manchester (Red) England 1,800 60 24 394 111
2 Madrid Spain 1,285 27 24 474 112
3 Arsenal England 1,200 43 31 329 77
4 Liverpool England 1,050 65 131 269 60
5 Munich Germany 917 0 9 302 72
6 Milan Italy 798 0 -3 307 54
7 Barcelona Spain 784 7 47 392 92
8 Chelsea England 764 0 42 382 -5
9 Juventus Italy 510 5 -10 196 35
10 Schalke Germany 470 48 0 154 36
11 Rome Italy 434 12 94 213 48
12 Tottenham England 414 15 70 207 64
13 Lion France 408 7 19 190 15
14 Inter Italy 403 0 -27 207 21
15 Borussia Germany 323 57 63 122 31
16 Newcastle England 300 43 16 175 12
17 Hamburger Germany 293 0 32 163 41
18 Werder Germany 262 0 NA 131 11
19 Valencia Spain 254 159 31 145 -49
20 Glasgow (Green)Scotland 227 11 23 151 48
21 Everton England 197 30 24 103 -1
22 West Ham Hammers England 195 23 25 115 -22
23 Manchester (Blue) England 191 63 -8 114 27
24 Aston Villa England 190 12 36 106 -40
25 Olympique France 187 0 19 134 13

The thing that's scary, if you're a Valencia fan, is that their percentage debt is greater than the value of their club!

Indeed, their debt is 159% of the total value of their club! affraid

That's not sustainable. Are they about to go bankrupt? If they get relegated they'll surely go under.


The fact that they use the terms Manchester (red) and Manchester (blue) makes me laugh and really makes me doubt whether they actually understand the sport!!


But I don't think you can read anything into this list since you cannot value the clubs owned by the fans or by individuals.. How would you rate Manchester (red) at 50% more than Madrid (white)?? You can't buy Madrid (white) so how are you going to value the club? You can look at income, market share etc etc but the fact is that at non-liquid asset is always traded at a discount..
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Stiftung Haeschentest

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Stiftung Haeschentest on Thu May 01, 2008 2:41 pm

The Quiet Earth wrote:If that list is correct, Bayern are in the healthiest financial position.

They are worth $917 billion and their percentage debt is 0% of the value of their club.

That's healthy! Ale

Edit - How do they have a greater revenue stream than Liverpool? I realise Bayern have a much larger stadium than Liverpool but I thought German ticket prices were less than English ticket prices, and the TV revenue is greater in the EPL than in any other league in the world, so how do they generate that much money?

Sponsorship. Bayern makes three times more money from sponsorship deals than Real Madrid for example.
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Calidad

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Calidad on Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 pm

It seems as if Bayern have the platform to invest in a couple of top class players for next years CL. I think Bayern are just a couple of players short from genuinely competing.

110%

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by 110% on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:52 am

Latest Rich List:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16951878

Top 10:
1. Real Madrid: 479.5m euros
2. Barcelona: 450.7m euros
3. Man Utd: 367m euros
4. Bayern Munich: 321.4m euros
5. Arsenal: 251.1m euros
6. Chelsea: 249.8m euros
7. AC Milan: 235.1.m euros
8. Internationale: 211.4m euros
9. Liverpool: 203.3m euros
10. Schalke: 202.4m euros
Source: Deloitte: 2010-11
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:11 am

Rest of the list (Top 20):

11. Tottenham €181m
12. Man City €169.6m
13. Juventus €153.9m
14. Marseille €150.4m
15. Roma €143.5m
16. Dortmund €138.5m
17. Lyon €132.8m
18. Hamburg €128.8m
19. Valencia €116.8m
20. Napoli €114.9m

http://www.goal.com/en/news/755/europe/2012/02/09/2893803/real-madrid-barcelona-lead-football-rich-list-as-schalke
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:21 am

More in-depth article on the current Deloitte money league:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/02/09/2892741/the-top-20-clubs-in-footballs-money-league

Increase / decrease in percent compared to last year's list:

1. Real Madrid +9.3%
2. Barcelona +13%
3. Manchester United +4.9%
4. Bayern München -0.5%
5. Arsenal -8.4%
6. Chelsea -2.4%
7. AC Milan -3.6%
8. Internationale -6%
9. Liverpool -9%
10. Schalke +45%
11. Tottenham +24%
12. Manchester City +11%
13. Juventus -24%
14. Marseille +6.6%
15. AS Roma +17%
16. Borussia Dortmund +32%
17. Lyon -9.1%
18. Hamburg -12%
19. Valencia +18%
20. Napoli +25%
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Kroos

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kroos on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:13 pm

TELEVISION REVENUE | The Top 10

Barcelona
€183.7m
Real Madrid
€183.5m
Manchester United €132.2m
Inter €124.4m
Chelsea €112.3m
Milan €107.7m
Arsenal €96.7m
Tottenham €92m
Roma €91.1m
Juventus €88.7m


facking joke, me wonders is bayern in the top 20, i dont think so

real and barca lol! thats the reason la liga has become weak Very Happy
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:21 pm

That's after a disappointing season for Bayern. If Bayern manage to go far in the CL this season, I can see them overtake Man United in one of the next lists.

Bayern's TV revenues are relatively low indeed, but their merchandising and other revenues put every other club to shame. The financially best run football club on the planet, no doubt.

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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:08 pm

While Serie A saw its revenues decrease at the top, there is much to be optimistic about.

There were 5 Italian clubs in the top 20, and Juve's CL qualification will see them climb high next year. Napoli broke into the top 20, while Roma saw a 20million euros increase (football-italia). Consider that Napoli were only 2 million euros away from Valencia in terms of revenue (and likely to rise with CL being factored in for next year's calculations)!

Italy had 5 teams in the top 20, Germany had 4, Spain only had 3.

If Milan go far in the CL, they may not be able to overtake Bayern, but they can surpass Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

Really hope the stadia law is passed in Italy, or clubs find some city councils willing to negotiate like Juve did.

Only Juve and Reggiana (not to be confused with Reggina) own their stadia in Italy.


110%

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by 110% on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:56 pm

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Kimbo

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:05 pm

We're on that list!! Crazy
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:59 pm

Dortmund close to the €200m mark already despite having a horrible season in Europe last season. Considering their improvement in Europe and improved standing as a brand, I expect them to be in the top ten next year. Schalke will most likely get back to their €200m revenue mark again due to their much improved European form.
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Kroos

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Kroos on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:52 pm

BROADCASTING REVENUE IN 2011-12

1 Real Madrid €199.2m ----11 Bayern Munich €81.4m Grr
2 Barcelona €179.8m ------12 Liverpool €78.2m
3 Chelsea €139.4m -------13 Tottenham Hotspur €76.1m
4 Manchester United €128.5m -------14 Olympique Lyonnais €71.6m
5 AC Milan €126.3m -------15 Olympique Marseille €70.4m
6 Inter €112.4m ------16 Newcastle United €68.7m
7 Manchester City €109m ------17 Roma €64.4m
8 Arsenal €107.7m ------18 Borussia Dortmund €60.4m
9 Juventus €90.6m ------19 Schalke €38m
10 Napoli €85.8m ------20 Hamburg €23m
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:54 pm

5 Italian teams in top 20. Only 2 Spanish ones. 7 English teams, and 4 German ones.

Until Italian teams can capitalize on matchday revenue, grim reading will persist for the big 3.

Man City are presumably so high because of their ludicrous renaming deal? What a farce UEFA is.

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bluenine

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by bluenine on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:59 pm

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:5 Italian teams in top 20. Only 2 Spanish ones. 7 English teams, and 4 German ones.

Until Italian teams can capitalize on matchday revenue, grim reading will persist for the big 3.

Man City are presumably so high because of their ludicrous renaming deal? What a farce UEFA is.


The deloitte pictorial above seems wrong... there is absolutely no way that Milan had a matchday revenue of 126m, its way too high for Italian clubs, like 3 times. I think they got confused between broadcast and matchday revenues.
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abundance

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by abundance on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Good catch - and the same for Juve too

110%

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by 110% on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

The man city broadcast revenue also looks wrong.

The actual report is here:
http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/industries/sportsbusinessgroup/sports/football/deloitte-football-money-league/c0d0cc64dac5c310VgnVCM3000003456f70aRCRD.htm

It has the same numbers as the pictorial. Bloody consultants!!
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messiah

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by messiah on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:32 pm

Milan's match day is 38m
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messiah

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by messiah on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:39 pm

I mean 33, if someone actually read the report they would have seem it was a mistake, its stead of doing just a copy and past as usual

110%

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by 110% on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:23 pm

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:5 Italian teams in top 20. Only 2 Spanish ones. 7 English teams, and 4 German ones.

Until Italian teams can capitalize on matchday revenue, grim reading will persist for the big 3.

Man City are presumably so high because of their ludicrous renaming deal? What a farce UEFA is.


I have to say that both Germany and the EPL do well there (despite the EPL charging so much) their average attendances are close to 99%, whereas Real and Barca are closer to 80%.

110%

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by 110% on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:55 pm

messiah wrote:I mean 33, if someone actually read the report they would have seem it was a mistake, its stead of doing just a copy and past as usual

Someone sent me the link and I pasted without checking the numbers, it happens.

It was then pointed out that there was something wrong with the numbers which is fine, but you checking the numbers in the report and still quoting Milan's matchday revenue wrong twice, that's lol!

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Fey

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Fey on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:18 pm

Madrid is a bit of a disgrace when you see how rich they are, and not a single CL in a decade. That's just unacceptable. Still, no Feyenoord on that list Laughing

HSV seems to be oozing potential. When will it ever come out. Realistly they are the only one who can rival Munich in Germany.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:26 pm

Wrong. Dortmund have a bigger stadium, better academy, better management and due to the huge population and number of important companies in their area (NRW is as big as Holland population wise), as much commercial options as HSV have. Hamburg is one of Germany's richest cities, sure, but Bayern München aren't so strong financially solely because they are located in Munich / Bavaria, a traditonally wealthy region. It has a lot more to do with their undisputed status as Germany's leading club, allowing them to attract major sponsors / partners on the national level, not just regional. Not even Real and Barcelona can compete with their commercial revenues because of this.

HSV could do a lot better than they do, that's true. But just because they are located in Hamburg, it doesn't mean that they are the only ones who can rival Bayern. By that logic, Stuttgart's potential should be even higher, for example, due to the economic strength of their region that is very similar to Bayern's.
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Fey

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

Post by Fey on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:29 pm

I agree that NRW looks a lot like Holland wise, or to be more precise Rhein-Ruhr/Randstad. Also it shows that we could easily fill our new stadium of 70k people, if you look at Dortmund. Considering the highly dense population areas. However, there is also a difference. There are way more bigger teams in the Ruhr area then there are in the Randstad. And thus, more teams for potenial sponsors to pick.

Hence HSV has such a unique position, they are all alone in such a big place. Media city of Germany, Banking capital of North-Germany, fairly big port etc. Now, you will say money aint everything. True. But if you look at that top20 list. If one would make a league out of that, that ranking could be fairly correct in the standings.

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Re: Real Top Rich List, Whilst MU Drop.

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