What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

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Ä

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What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Ä on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:06 pm

I think all three are underperforming and have been for some time, although maybe less so in the case of Schaaf

still, even Bremen have to ask themselves how long they can allow Schaaf to destroy Allof's good work

Liverpool never seem to sack anybody, but what would it take ?

is there any conceivable scenario that would lead to Wenger getting the boot ?

Oleguerisntthatbad

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:07 pm

Liverpool to finish without European football (no UEFA): sacked Benitez
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by shazlx on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:14 pm

ottOld Shatterhand wrote:I think all three are underperforming and have been for some time, although maybe less so in the case of Schaaf

still, even Bremen have to ask themselves how long they can allow Schaaf to destroy Allof's good work

Liverpool never seem to sack anybody, but what would it take ?

is there any conceivable scenario that would lead to Wenger getting the boot ?

Wenger's [policy of buying talented kids and then selling some on for major profit has effectively allowed the club to build the stadium. So to answer your question, no. He isn't the best tactician/coach but has become financially too valuable to do sack unless he make a huge mistake i.e. doesn't qualify for the CL.

As for Benitez, I think if Liverpool spend big in the summer and they don't seriously challenge for the title then he may well be sacked.
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by The Easter Bunny on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:22 pm

Otto is that you in that pic?

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by L r d on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:36 pm

Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:Liverpool to finish without European football (no UEFA): sacked Benitez

Nah. Maybe two years in a row, then, but not before.

We do sack managers, we just back them to the hilt beforehand. Houllier walked before he was pushed but only after two seasons of no progression (which happened to coincide with the end of his '5 year plan').

Otto's talking rubbish though, again. Still, if the worst does happen, maybe we can get in Daum. I'm sure Fowler would like him, they have a few things in common...


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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:40 pm

Obispo wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:Liverpool to finish without European football (no UEFA): sacked Benitez

Nah. Maybe two years in a row, then, but not before.

We do sack managers, we just back them to the hilt beforehand. Houllier walked before he was pushed but only after two seasons of no progression (which happened to coincide with the end of his '5 year plan').

Otto's talking rubbish though, again. Still, if the worst does happen, maybe we can get in Daum. I'm sure Fowler would like him, they have a few things in common...


One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Parks lives on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:42 pm

Exactly. If he wins nothing this season and repeated that next season, whilst finishing 5th. He'd be off.

I'm sure they will think twice even if he scrapped 4th and was along way from 1st.

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by L r d on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:43 pm

Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

And both realise that the best way to get money is through success and there is no one out there who would be a bigger success than Rafa.

Besides which, Parry will still be in charge of the day to day running the club, so don't expect any emergency board room meetings to sort out whether we're going to sack Rafa or not. S'wishful thinking Razz
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:45 pm

A really poor wind up attempt otto...

Allofs and Schaaf have to be seen as a unit, they decide which player to get together, so both should get the praise for the very good work we have done in this department over the years.

Schaaf made Klose, for example. He formed a talented, but limited, late starter and made him to the player he is today. Under him, almost all players who have ever joined us improved dramatically. He introduced an attacking philosophy, made Werder the most attractive Bundesliga side for the neutral fan, and all this with a smaller budget than our competitors. This concept is now being copied by others even (e.g. Stuttgart and your beloved HSV under Doll).

Werder Bremen under Schaaf & Allofs is slowly but surely becoming a true European top club, that's the long term goal. Step by step we are climbing up the ladder, and don't make the mistake to want too much too early like HSV did. We'll hopefully continue to qualify for the CL every year, and with the new stadium, we will improve our finances even more. We are one of the best run clubs in Europe in this respect already, no debts at all, only Bayern are better off financially in the Bundesliga.

Schaaf is here to stay. Werder legend as a player (never played for another club), Werder legend as a coach. We'll build him a monument when he retires.

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:48 pm

Obispo wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

And both realise that the best way to get money is through success and there is no one out there who would be a bigger success than Rafa.

Besides which, Parry will still be in charge of the day to day running the club, so don't expect any emergency board room meetings to sort out whether we're going to sack Rafa or not. S'wishful thinking Razz

But the Yanks have him by the balls since it is their money.. don't be so naive Obispo, this is big business. You are no longer just a football club but you are an investment.

Still I don't want him sacked and back in Spain Wink
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by The Pröfessör on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:48 pm

I would still want us to keep Wenger even if we we finish say 5th in the league.

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Parks lives on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:51 pm

Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
Obispo wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

And both realise that the best way to get money is through success and there is no one out there who would be a bigger success than Rafa.

Besides which, Parry will still be in charge of the day to day running the club, so don't expect any emergency board room meetings to sort out whether we're going to sack Rafa or not. S'wishful thinking Razz

But the Yanks have him by the balls since it is their money.. don't be so naive Obispo, this is big business. You are no longer just a football club but you are an investment.

Still I don't want him sacked and back in Spain Wink

Interesting that most Liverpool fans said the Glazers wouldn't be patient when we were struggling last season, now they expect there Americans to be the opposite. Razz

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Forza It on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:28 pm

shazlx wrote:
ottOld Shatterhand wrote:I think all three are underperforming and have been for some time, although maybe less so in the case of Schaaf

still, even Bremen have to ask themselves how long they can allow Schaaf to destroy Allof's good work

Liverpool never seem to sack anybody, but what would it take ?

is there any conceivable scenario that would lead to Wenger getting the boot ?

Wenger's [policy of buying talented kids and then selling some on for major profit has effectively allowed the club to build the stadium. So to answer your question, no. He isn't the best tactician/coach but has become financially too valuable to do sack unless he make a huge mistake i.e. doesn't qualify for the CL.

As for Benitez, I think if Liverpool spend big in the summer and they don't seriously challenge for the title then he may well be sacked.

Borrowed money has done that.

What the stadium has done is put a lot of pressure on those kids so that Arsenal can make the Champions League every year and cut that debt down.

L r d
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by L r d on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:32 pm

Parks lives wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
Obispo wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

And both realise that the best way to get money is through success and there is no one out there who would be a bigger success than Rafa.

Besides which, Parry will still be in charge of the day to day running the club, so don't expect any emergency board room meetings to sort out whether we're going to sack Rafa or not. S'wishful thinking Razz

But the Yanks have him by the balls since it is their money.. don't be so naive Obispo, this is big business. You are no longer just a football club but you are an investment.

Still I don't want him sacked and back in Spain Wink

Interesting that most Liverpool fans said the Glazers wouldn't be patient when we were struggling last season, now they expect there Americans to be the opposite. Razz

Equally interesting that the glazers didn't sack Ferguson for performing shit in Europe last year, and winning nothing of note in 3 seasons, but United fans expect other American investors to do the exact opposite.

Not being a silly little tosser again, are we?

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:33 pm

Obispo wrote:
Parks lives wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
Obispo wrote:
Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
One thing is the fans.. but remember your new Yank masters are in it for the money.. No European football would mean huge losses.

And both realise that the best way to get money is through success and there is no one out there who would be a bigger success than Rafa.

Besides which, Parry will still be in charge of the day to day running the club, so don't expect any emergency board room meetings to sort out whether we're going to sack Rafa or not. S'wishful thinking Razz

But the Yanks have him by the balls since it is their money.. don't be so naive Obispo, this is big business. You are no longer just a football club but you are an investment.

Still I don't want him sacked and back in Spain Wink

Interesting that most Liverpool fans said the Glazers wouldn't be patient when we were struggling last season, now they expect there Americans to be the opposite. Razz

Equally interesting that the glazers didn't sack Ferguson for performing shit in Europe last year, and winning nothing of note in 3 seasons, but United fans expect other American investors to do the exact opposite.

Not being a silly little tosser again, are we?

Still I was talking about Pool finishing 7th or lower.. which would be a disaster. Man Utd did get CL football..

Luis
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Luis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:34 pm

If Rafa wins the european cup again this season, people will be putting him up there with Shanks, you can bet that...sacked?! don't be ridiculous
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Machiavel on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:38 pm

No Luis .. he needs to win a couple League title to be ever compared to the great Bill Shankly.

He has already offended Everton .. so hes on track Very Happy

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Luis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:39 pm

Rai Krol wrote:No Luis .. he needs to win a couple League title to be ever compared to the great Bill Shankly.

He has already offended Everton .. so hes on track Very Happy

I'm not comparing him to the great man, I'm saying others will, He will win the league in time
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by COTR on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:54 pm

Am I imagining this thread or has otto just suggested that benitez should be sacked?

Oleguerisntthatbad

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Oleguerisntthatbad on Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:57 pm

COTR wrote:Am I imagining this thread or has otto just suggested that benitez should be sacked?

I guess so.. but nobody in their right minds would sack now.

L r d
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by L r d on Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:33 pm

Rai Krol wrote:No Luis .. he needs to win a couple League title to be ever compared to the great Bill Shankly.

He has already offended Everton .. so hes on track Very Happy

If he wins the European Cup this year (BIG IF. It's a really tall ask), only Paisley will compare with him in a European sense.
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Ä

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Ä on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:16 pm

@blut

this is no wind-up

the simple question is how various clubs define their AIMS in the short/medium/long-term

for this season Bremen were my favourites from the start, with the likes of Klose, Boro, Merte, Frings... in their team

then SChalke started having massive problems (internal strife/press boycott...), Bayern under Magath lost their mojo as well

with Schalke and Bayern struggling Werder should easily have won the league. EASILY

yet, they might not even qualify for the CL

SChaaf's achievements are not disputed, but this could be a Bundesliga title HE LOST

most people don't quite realise that Bremen are a Bundesliga GIANT, for whatever reason

they are amongst the top 3 in the title ranking, and in the top2 in the Bundesliga points ranking, I believe

even Bremen fans see the club as an overachieving middling clubs competing against the odds

it's not quite right though

@ obispo/children

Benitez has won the CL; Houllier has won the UEFA / FA Cup

fine

now the PRIORITY has to be the EPL title, even if at the expense of the CL

the question is whether the club board understands this

----------------------

Arsenal are just a mystery to me

I have ZERO idea what their aims and priorities are even supposed to be

they are merely drifting and need more direction


Last edited by on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by fcb on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:26 pm

I'm with oleguer on this one - keep Mourinho and Benitez in England.
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:35 pm

otto, why don't you mention our long term injuries? Our captain and key player Baumann is injured for months (we basically have no proper replacement and play without a true DMC for months now), Borowski is injured, Frings is not fully fit, Klose is more or less injured and not fully fit etc. pp.

And as if all these injuries are not enough, we simply don't get any rest. Just look at our schedule this week: 3 competitive matches in 6 days (2x UEFA Cup, one key match against Bayern). We have quite a few internationals in our team also, and some of them (e.g. Frings) didn't have a rest for ages.

All these factors matter, and you can't really blame Schaaf for them. Besides, the Bundesliga simply has gotten more competitive also, with smaller teams believing in themselves and not just trying to sneak a point against "big teams". It's no coincidence that basically half of the league is in the relegation struggle these days. It's is harder to win the title this year than last year, not easier.
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Ä

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Ä on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:55 pm

@blut

ALL teams have problems

Schalke were effectively in meltdown; Bayern even sacked their 2xdouble winning coach and dropped to 4th

Lahm, Poldi and Schweini were all underperforming, sometimes it was Magath's fault, sometimes not

Hargreaves got injured; Santa Cruz still fires blanks; Lucio - van Buyton was an unexpected mismatch and Kahn is getting old

Bremen have problems but not more so than others really

just look at HSV, last year's darlings

the way the CL was given away in the Nou Camp still hurts

Ajax away was dreadful....

Bremen had a woeful defence against Bayern this weekend

sure , Baumann is injured, but a good manager improvises

SChaaf has added style, but if Werder cannot win the title against THIS dreadful opposition with players like Diego, Wiese, Klose, Frings, Merte and Co, then they will never win it

and by the way, a GIANT like Bremen needs a stadium of at least 55.000 seats; not 50.000

Werder have to be more ambitious
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:05 pm

Laugh

The stadium will have more than 50,000 seats.

If you want to criticise Schaaf (and Allofs btw.), criticise them for loaning out the wrong players. We really need Leon Andreasen these days, who is doing brilliantly for Mainz in the holding role. And scaring Zidan away was not a smart move either, he was voted as player of the month recently.

These are mistakes you can criticise them both for, and I'd agree. But don't blame him for our players being exhausted, he couldn't even rotate if he wanted to, in the midfield at least (due to injuries).

P.S.: Our first 11 might be better than Bayern's, if all are fit, but Bayern have more depth in their squad, and can compensate losses of their key players better.

110%

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by 110% on Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:52 am

ottOld Shatterhand wrote:I have ZERO idea

then why do you keep posting Wink

what are the chances of Liverpool or Arsenal finishing outside of the CL places? Already pretty much guaranteed this season and I can see them being stronger next season. Spurs, Bolton etc can only hope to catch them if they have a lot of injuries or have a really poor season, but they have done well enough so far not to get sacked after 1 bad season.

Mourinho's more likely to go, even if he's more successful.
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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Axeslammer on Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:59 am

COTR wrote:Am I imagining this thread or has otto just suggested that benitez should be sacked?

He also thinks Podolski is a great talent Laugh

"This, kids, is what drugs will do to you !"
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blutgraetsche

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:03 pm

Podolski is a great talent, otto is actually right about that. But talent alone doesn't necessarily make you a great player. Poldi will learn this sooner or later, he is young and still has a lot to learn anyway.
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Ä

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Re: What would it take to sack Schaaf, Wenger & Benitez ?

Post by Ä on Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:04 pm

@ axe

actually I think the PRINZ will be the next global megastar

it's between C.Ronaldo and Poldi

Ronaldo WANTS to be the next Beckham and Poldi does not

but

Poldi will one day bring back the CL to Barca; Ronaldo will merely increase the world-wide turnover of hair-gel

true story

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